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Original: 5/21/2006 9:53 PM
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Sunday, May 21, 2006

 
Currently Listening
Emotive
By A Perfect Circle
Imagine
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My faith level is at a very low point right now, and it's affecting every facet of my life, putting me in a mild depression. My mind is full of questions and I have different answers for them, but I dont know which one is the right one. When the Apologetics class I'm taking at school started, I was really excited, but as time went on it just didn't seem to do that good of a job in defending my faith. Most of it was about attacking other faiths and worldviews and pointing out flaws in those rather than explaining some of the attacks on Christianity. I've heard the side from the Christian point of view, but what about the secular point of view? What's their take on Christianity? Someone was telling me that Apologetics has boosted their faith so much, and that's great. But they've heard an incredibly biased view, and I've had the pleasure/displeasure of hearing both sides. I've used arguments I learned in Apologetics against atheists/nonchristians in debates and they've refuted a lot of my arguments. When you hear only one side of a view, you're left with the idea that the "other side" doesn't have a counterpoint, when in fact, you're just not giving them a chance. Example: Creation vs. Evolution. We learned some supposedly irrefutable list of points that disprove evolution. I brought them up in a debate and they pointed out/proved that they were outdated or flat out incorrect. This doesn't mean I'm an evolutionist by any means (I'm still creationist for other reasons).

Another thing, and this pertains more to my personal faith. I've been struggling for the past couple weeks with the way my faith is conducted. Going to Grace Church + Youth group, Mars Hill, etc. I've been inundated with charismatic teachings such as prophecy, tongues, and worship in very weird ways. I've been taught stuff, but I never tried to affirm it myself. I simply took it as truth without any sort of doubt. There's the issue of prophecy which I'm going to research before I say anything that'll make an ass out of myself. Then there's the issue of tongues where they once tried to teach us how to speak in tongues by having some random words/combination of letters flash up on the screen that we would say. Again, I'm gonna study that topic some more before I make a decision about it, but that was incredibly questionable and still sticks out in my mind. Keep in mind I've never spoken in tongues or prophesied. 

*You can skip this part if you want and go straight to the summary below it*

Then there's worship. There are people screaming, crying, laughing, twitching, laying on the ground, jumping up and down, and being absolutely crazy. I never really had a problem (I even used to do some of that) with it until recently. There was this feeling that would come over me when doing these kinds of things, they call it a "spiritual high" or other times it was the presence of God. It was something seemingly tangible, something that proved in my mind that Christianity was true. Then when i recounted this to an atheist in a debate, he said it was just mass hysteria. Basically, its a crowd of people together and their minds play tricks on them by giving them what they want. In other words, it's all in your head. I didn't think anything of it at the time and I was like "Whatever, pathetic cop-out". But recently in Apologetics class we saw a video about the New Age worldview and it showed a New Age convention. In it, there were about 1000 or so people, and they were all worshipping in totally absurd ways. But then it hit me that they don't look all that different in their manner of worship than we do. They rock back and forth, they dance, they scream, they jump up and down, and other very weird forms of worship, except it was for the purpose of freeing their minds and they were definitely getting into it. Then it showed interviews with some of the worshippers afterwards and some were crying, some were giggling, and some simply couldn't speak at all. It was ridiculous to watch, but then again, what do we look like?

[Summary: People worship in other religions worship and they look a lot like we charismatics do. Is what we feel when we worship actually the presence of God or is it simply the result of mass hysteria?]

So my question is this: Why do we believe in God? Is it based on your own experience? I'm a logic/reason type of guy, and experience just doesn't seem a logical reason to be a Christian. I don't have one of those amazing testimonies where God brought me out of my life of drugs, alcohol, and misery and set my life back on course and now I'm a good happy Christian. I was born into a Christian household. I grew up in the church. I almost didn't have a choice to be a Christian, and that worries me. If you were not a Christian, what reason would you have for becoming a Christian?

Please don't take this as my renouncing my faith, I still wholeheartedly believe in God, I'm just sort of restarting it, beginning with the basic tenets of Christianity and trying to get a foundation from which to build up on. This actually might be a good thing for me. I'm actually studying the Bible, using commentaries, and outlining passages. Maybe I'll re-read Mere Christianity. I missed half of what CS Lewis was saying the first time...

This took me 45 minutes to write. I don't have a life...

 Posted 5/21/2006 9:53 PM - 1 View - 6 eProps - 8 comments

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8 Comments

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wow. johnathon. thats some deep stuff. and seeing as i'm a freshmen. you probally wont care about my opinion but i'll go for it anyway.

issue one: Apologetics class---i definitly, completely agree with you about how you shouldnt be learning how to disprove other religions. thats just bad fcs teaching, i mean sure its allright but i agree you should learn more how to defend your faith.

issue two: tongues---what the crud?? they were trying to teach you how to speak tongues?!?!?!?! where????? thats really wow. ok well this is my view on it [and i shouldnt really speak about this because i cant speak it yet (i say yet because i know God's working in me, and it's something you have to desire)] but i will speak about what i know from talking to people. the gift of tongues [as said in the Bible] that it is a gift from God like prophecy, or discernment, etc. and it's not something you learn in a text book. you have to desire for it. and [of course God's in control of it] but you will recieve the gift. and as for prophesy--it comes in different shapes and sizes, for me it is pictures sometimes i'll see pictures and then i'll ask God went that was suposed to mean if it was some sort of thing my mind just brought up or if it was from Him. if it wasnt just some stupid thing my mind made up then God will tell me what it means. then i'll talk to whoever its about, the outcome is sometimes amazing other times they just smile and say thankyou. i've had people break down in tears and other times just say thats cool. so yeah prophesing is however God makes it. its not something you can just get from humans.

issue three: [not defending myself or anything like that or defending grace or anything] BUT i really dont believe this whole mass hysteria gig i mean talk to God about it but really curry i can say with out a shadow of a doubt what happens at mars hill or grace [with most] is deeper then hysteria--now i'm not saying that doesn't happen. i completely belive that it most likely happens alot at conferences when hype kicks in and talk of revival and all that good stuff-i can see where hype and excitment could cause a "mass hysteria" as you might say it.

issue four: why do we believe in God? we believe [i believe] in God because He first believed in me. He has revealed himself to me in amazing ways that i can not question his existance. just look outside and wow be amazed. well i have about your same testimony. seems i've always been this happy in love Christian, but actualy i had this whole year [last year and beginning of this one] where i was really depressed, basically questioned God every chance i had, thought about completely denoucing Him, i hated everything about my life, i had issues...no one could really tell though...to everyone i appeared the same. then i started going to Grace. that was it. just walking in there i felt something different. i talked to dillon mahoney and missy and just them talking i could see something different and i wanted it. i started coming closer and closer to Jesus. but then i realized something-- it wasnt I drawing myself to Him he was drawing HIMSELF closer to me. and i've never been so happy. worst stuff, like i cant even explain. has happened in my life but i cant stop smiling and rejoicing [doesnt mean i'm always happy, but i am alot more often] its not some spiritual high. its Jesus. its His love.

woah sorry that was so long. i kinda got carried away...I'm going to stop now.

but lastly, i just wanted to let you know that i've been praying for you lately. i dont know why, really. but often when i'm praying for my friends [i kinda get emotional and start talking real fast covering all of them] and everytime i just spouting out God be with so and so and so and so and joshua and then i'm like what-whos joshua, why would i call someone joshua? and then God  brings you to my memory [cause of the whole joshua thing] and so i'll take a couple minutes to pray for you. i really think [cross that out, i Know] the Lord is working you---questioning is a really good thing, not enough people do it. i'm glad that you are. really, just seek God's answer and you cant go wrong there. i dont know much at all, i tried to help all i can. i'll just keep praying for you. keep seeking Him with all your heart. and HE will reveal Himself to you.

hang in there-the Christian faith isn't easy.
[not saying this is what is happening] but just watch out for the enemy's attacks.
he's real and he'd like nothing more than to destroy you so God can't use you to be the man of God i know you are

all in the love of Jesus
amberlynn

Posted 5/22/2006 4:28 PM by xfish_outta_waterx - reply

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Apologetics is one year next year. Talk to mr. shaeffer about both sides.. and see if you can take the class maybe, auditivley.

and about the worship. My stance on it is probably different then most people (if not everyone) in the school. I personally don't think you need to dance and flip out during worship. Yes I call it flipping out. It says in the bible that you can dance for Jesus, but when you're distracting other people from worship it's a different story.

and just because God didn't bring you up out of a ghetto, you instead have lived a complete good life, and are a christian. Have you ever maybe thought that this entire time you've been a Christian, God's been blessing you? and keeping you under his wing and protection? It's a mighty think when you think about it. If you really wanna see a change, or proof.. pray for God to reveal himself to you.. do it every night whole-heartedly for a month and I'm positive at the end God will reveal himself to you.

Be Free!,
Jacy
Posted 5/23/2006 9:42 PM by InfatuatedwithGod - reply

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one: i'm really sorry if i made it sound like you were a dead christian. i dont think that at all! i think you questioning is an AMAZING thing! allright just getting that out of the way. and the whole Bible study! wow! thats awesome-yeah God's word-meditate on it day and night [something i needa do more often]

two: i agree with the whole getting into worship cuz everyone else is doing it is sometimes tempting, but, at least with me, its me and God if i dont wanna worship Him i dont want to dance for Him [which happens sometimes] i'll be like you know God i love you to death but right now i'm depressed, i'm pissed and any dancing or screaming or anything intense like that would be fake. so i'll just sit and be in the presence of others thanking God and such and that will ready my heart.

three: the gifts thing. yeah thats reallllllllly hard for me too. like really hard. i mean i look at some other people involved with Grace and i'm like WOW they got it and sometimes i think that God cant use me like he can use them. but that's so far from being true. God uses anyone and everyone. ok take this for example. my sister [love her to death]. shes well you know how she is sometimes...but she went to a richmond food drive, prayed with a women, and gave her a hug and the women BROKE DOWN. tears and everything. Joy like radiated from her face. Melissa caused that. it was amazing. so just cuz you cant do all this  "woah" stuff doesnt mean he cant use you and when your ready He'll start developing gifts in you. except. honestly. i think He allready has. seriously johnathon it might not be in ways that everyone can see--like the gift of discernment. i mean look at that post that has the gift of discernment all over it, and if you were there at mars hill last week we talked about how that was a gift. and i mean just cuz it doesnt look like intense doesnt mean God isnt going to use you through it. i promise He will. keep desiring spiritual gifts for the right reasons and He'll work in it. Like that first about how their are many parts but only one body and just cuz the arm doesnt think its as important as the hand doesnt mean its not important...yeah...thats just something God has been working in me about.

In Christ,
amberlynn

Posted 5/24/2006 4:08 PM by xfish_outta_waterx - reply

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I gotta start allowing comments on my site.. sorry for the trouble of having to go around it. anyways, yeah totally agree on worship. And about apologetics, I didn't really like the book either, there was a quote by Darwin, and.. sorry to say I used to an athiest and he refuted it right away. It wasn't even the entire quote, only half. Very very sad and pathetic. I was dissapointed.
Posted 5/24/2006 5:41 PM by InfatuatedwithGod - reply

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yeah no there's nothing wrong with the way you worship-its however God calls you to worship Him. everyone does it different. like one of like the most amazing christians i've ever met stands and blinks when worship music plays, and still her and God are like *that* so yeah dont think theres anything wrong with that, please. just keep focused on God. see if i stood still i would prob start like twitching or something cuz i dont stay focused too long on being in His prescence. but sometimes dancing or something just gets me there u know?

Posted 5/24/2006 8:29 PM by xfish_outta_waterx - reply

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If you haven't already, talk to Aaron Rayford(sp?) about how he worships.. it's kinda cool.. but umm.. so no worries, you ain't no heathen boi! haha yeah and I'll enable those comments.. maybe.. nah im kiddin I will

Be free!,
Jacy
Posted 5/25/2006 5:41 AM by InfatuatedwithGod - reply

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yeah dont then. be who God has called you to be. and dont worry about anything else. cuz in reality none of it really matters anyways...
Posted 5/25/2006 9:04 AM by xfish_outta_waterx - reply

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I'm kinda proud of you right now. A lot of times we have to start over. It's like your walking along and then you finally realize, "Holy crap, where's God?" You turn around to see that you actually veered to the right when you should have gone straight. It was so subtle that you never would have noticed, except for the dryness your feeling. (When I say you, I really mean me, us ect.) SO you have to go back in order to go forward. God showed me this in my own heart really reacently. I'll be praying for you.
Posted 5/26/2006 6:37 AM by MattRudd89 - reply


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